The Death of Raiding is Nigh!

Hi guys!!

I have to report some really disappointing news. Our dear friends in Corruptions and Blood Blades have decided to form there own Kara groups - Corr saying that the tribes runs were a predominantly a waste of time and effort as so little was being achieved.

This has resulted in the Kara runs being potentially removed from the Tribes raiding schedule.

I understand that this is a f***ing kick in the teeth to so many of us as nearly all lvl 70 guild members still need this instance for gear, and without the gear we have no chance of getting into 25 man raids with Tribes.

If you have any comments or suggestions, please post here so we can decide where we go.

One option we go for those very highly rated PUG groups or we have to go cap-in-hand and find another guild that is prepared to take our "underperforming" players into Kara.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - but we need to address this and find an alternative way of moving on.

Griff

Hi folks,

There are still some of us - myself and Vetra included - who are happy to run Kara on our mains to help out.

Also, there are several folk in FI (which has even less in the way of raid capable mains than SK) who I'm sure want to run.

Thirdly, I don't know the situation with TBB but I would be surprised if they have enough folk to run Kara regularly and effectively on their own.

/bux

Hi guys!!
I have to report some really disappointing news. Our dear friends in Corruptions and Blood Blades have decided to form there own Kara groups - Corr saying that the tribes runs were a predominantly a waste of time and effort as so little was being achieved.

Griff

I have to say I'm very dissapointed and p----- off at the fact you are blaming Corruptions for the 'death of raiding' both here and in the officers section. You make it sound like its our job to take you into a dungeon weve been doing for a year (both endless wipes on bosses or finally downing them) and hold your hand through encounters and give you gear not neccasarily on mains but green equipped alts also.

Bear in mind that corruptions still has people in it, it would be easy enough to get a run with SK/FI/Corruptions as one single force.

If you want to raid 25 mans you cant just have the gear, you need to be able to use it properly and that wont happen if your not learning karazhan by being boosted through with guys who have gear past it already.

and the "underperforming" jibe, who said that about your members? If they arent listening to tactics, havent got vent installed, or Omen, or Boss mods, bringing potions, elixirs or equipped for karazhan properly then yes, that is underperforming, and selfish. Youll find that if you tell them they cant go unless they do that they will greatly increase their efforts in a short space of time, or gquit and if they do, that proves their worth straight away.

Ide also like to point out that corruptions never agreed to run karazhan with tribes and our members were pretty upset when people were expected to go with groups that they didnt want to without being asked. I agree it could have been handled better but its certainly not because we dont like your members or think they suck.

By all means ask for help, you cant do much in this game without it. Id'e be willing to jump in if a group of mains nearly ready for 25 mans is struggling on an encounter, if a group of alts is in there jumping up and down, not on vent, not caring cause their main is going SSC the next day then thats when i draw the line.

/signed Goldensilver

Corruptions dont find helping others a waste of time, they find when they have to bring their main to a run with 9 alts and wipe on simple mobs because of no coordination (what Gold said) is not helping anybody much, or in fact fun.

I understand your comments about mains>alts. Most of the characters from SK in Kara are in fact mains - the only exception being DS who has put himself out to be RL for the runs, which we have greatly appreciated

On these grounds, we are probably as frustrated as anyone that the progression has been slow at times. We certainly aren't expecting or wanting to be boosted through Kara. We don't want everything given to us on a plate. That will achieve very little and make us more inadequate in higher lvl instances as we won't understand the intricacies of our classes at higher levels. We want to learn the different tactics used and achieve goals. Yes getting gear is good, and needs to be achieved too so we can participate at the next level.

I apologise if it seems I am taking it out on Corruptions, I wasn't intending to blame any specific ppl or parties, I think it was born out of pure frustration at seeing a route for advancement which SK really need being potentially cancelled.

If on the rare occasions you may be a little short on numbers, please feel free to ask as I'm sure members would jump at the chance of going to Kara if they were able to - me included

Griff

Well, I guess it's not great for veterans to be put into an alt Karazhan run just like that, if you don't like that. Corruptions, Feral Instinct, Blood Blades and Silent Killers are still separate guilds. You have to remember that Corruptions doesn't have the long "Tribes" history that SK/FI has. And Dark Venom is about the 25 man runs, not Karazhan.

Can't we just organise Kara runs for the alts and undergeared people from Corruptions, FI, SK and BB?

All who would like to go?

I think Golden's post above, and Griff's latest reply are both spot-on, as was Lostsoul's post in the officer's forum where we were discussing similar issues.

I do not think the blame lies with any specific person or guild, or that anyone was trying to suggest that. Drawing on Lost's post, we seem to have several categories of people:

1) Veterans who are totally bored of Kara having done it so many times

2) Veterans who may still have an odd upgrade available, or would be after badges, but have done kara so much they want quick and effective blizz through and no wiping or practicing tactics... If these people are placed in a group that has to start learning curator fight from 0 again, they will get very bored or discontent. Fact is that with too many alts/newbies the kara raiding/learning starts from 0 again.

3) Those who still need/want to do kara. This last group is most heterogenous and includes at least: a) Those tribes members who have just started raiding and lack gear and skill/experience, alts of veteran players

(I hope Lost doesn't mind me nicking some of his words, but they were very well put).

I realise some people may see the attitude of people in categories 1 and 2 above as selfish - but I dont think they are. Many people here have done Kara since >1yr ago, and have done it for 6months+ to help others while needing nothing further there themselves, so I don't think it's really selfish for them to only be inetersted in fast badge-runs, for example, rather than wiping to cuartor with an over-new laden group.

Recent attempts to set up signups for Kara have led to too alt/new-heavy groups in my opinion, which has led to the recent unhappiness.

I don't think any of us has the answers, but I think there are definitely two separate needs to be met; the 'advanced' need of those who have done it forever and should not feel guilty about doing a fast advanced run, and the 'progress' need of people who need to advance their play and kit by progressing through the earlier bosses.

Whatever approach we end up taking I think has to meet both needs, otherwise it gets no-where and leaves half the group unhappy, which no-one wants; but both sides also have be pragmatic about the others needs also.

As.

TBB- karazhan no idea whats going on there and im in there lol. By the looks of it main raiders have gone to nihil khoas void (old tbb members started it) and dear ruzz has parted to Hex (another guild started by ex tbb members). Ive decided to not follow them and just raid with you amazing people.