Enter another world

By Fantasy Fantasy Marshal Command
Dark Venom
Dark Venom

Raid Threat

13 posts

Post a reply

Raid Threat

#1
Heya,

I have been reading up and checking it with my current gear and tanking style and have found a few (minor ) improvements that will help my threat build over time.

Will be respeccing imp demo shout for imp heroic,and improved revenge(less rage cost more strikes) and switching three +8 defense gems for + hit as I am well over 490 (immune crit) in defense so can lose some there.The plus hit is capped at 142 so then I would not be missing any hit (thus building threat with each hit).Also reset my keys so the right cycles can be accesed on right cooldown order.

On the other hand there is also a raids responsibility to stay under the MT threat level by utilizing the specced talents or standard skills....I think there is our main problem in losing dps races....

Almost every class has its own aggro dump ,wich takes them to the bottom of the threat list in only 5 secs...this enables that class to go all out for an extend period of time in comparison to waiting time for natural threat decay....

*Skip the whole tank threat building info bit for threat dumping list :lol: *

Based on below info :

The goal for the tank is get an optimal threat cycle going on the NPC enemy, allowing the raid or group to perform at maximum DPS levels. In order to find out these cycles, one must know appropriate values of commonly used threat tools. These can be listed by rage and time efficiency.

| Rage | Sec

Shield Slam (Rank 6) | 84 | 953

Revenge (Rank 8) | 417 | 556

Devastate (Rank 3) [5]-Slow 53 | 425

Devastate (Rank 3) [5]-Fast | 48 | 387

Thunder Clap (Rank 7) [5] | 36 | 340

Sunder Armor (Rank 6) | 50 | 300

Devastate (Rank 3) [0]-Slow | 36 | 290

Devastate (Rank 3) [0]-Fast | 32 | 252

Heroic Strike (Rank 10)Fast | 44 | 336

Heroic Strike (Rank 10)Slow | 44 | 211

Cleave (Rank 10)Fast | 23 | 243

Cleave (Rank 10)Slow | 23 | 233

Rage refers to threat per rage.

Sec refers to threat per second.

All instant abilities in this example are maximum talented.

Heroic Strike cost assumes rage loss by damage for that attack.

Simulation gear equivalent to Tier 4

Assumes 30% mitigation

As a general conclusion, we can see that:

Threat per rage offers the following prority list: Revenge > Shield Slam > Sunder Armor > Devastate 5 > Thunder Clap > Devastate 0

Threat per second offers the follwing priority list: Shield Slam > Revenge > Devastate 5 > Thunder Clap > Sunder Armor > Devastate 0

And since Heroic Strike has it's own weapon speed dependent cooldown: Above + Heroic Strike, which spammability defines choice of weaponspeed.

Having the numbers known, we can move on to threat cycles. Since Shield Slam and Revenge are on six-second cooldowns, and global cooldown takes 1.5 seconds, the most sensible cycle takes four attacks, thereby dropping a little of Thunder Clap efficiency. Optimal results are very dependent on talents. We will start with a blank talented warrior.

Threat cycle

Revenge 919

Sunder Armor 450

Sunder Armor 450

Sunder Armor 450

Cycle threat 2,269

Evidently, there are more factors that can be taken into account in different situations. The warrior can easily choose to drop a Thunder Clap or Demoralizing Shout once every 30 seconds in exchange for a Sunder Armor slot. Also, Heroic Strike can be simultaneously used, which can add another 1200ish threat per cycle, depending on weapon speed.

A warrior specced for Improved Thunder Clap may choose to toss in a Thunder Clap every 6 seconds, since it adds a little more threat than Sunder Armor and targets nearby enemies aswell. The same goes for the talent Shield Slam, which adds an immense ammount of threat.

Threat cycle

Shield Slam 1,430

Revenge 919

Thunder Clap 510

Sunder Armor 450

Cycle threat 3,309

Note that in the above example, Thunder Clap should not be spammed on the target, so long as that target misses 5 Sunder Debuffs. Adding Devastate brings even more variety to threat cycles, which allows us to define building and holding threat cycles for the protection specced warrior.

Building threat cycle | Holding threat cycle

Shield Slam 1,430 | Shield Slam 1,430

Revenge 919 | Revenge 919

Sunder Armor 450 | Devastate 5 580

Sunder Armor 450 | Devastate 5 580

Cycle threat 3,249 | Cycle threat 3,509

Please do note that, while Devastate may give a higher instant threat output than Sunder Armor around 3 applications of Sunder, depending on your weapon speed, getting 5 Sunders up is more beneficial to your threat output than to keep Devastating at 2 Sunders. Also in the above example, Thunder Clap may once again be favorable if you're facing multiple targets or for the extra debuff on your target. Don't forget to use Heroic Strike simultaneously!

So now for the raids aggro dumping abilities...

Just going to list all DPS classes and their threat modifiers and/or dumps.

Most of you are fully aware of this(easily accessible from sites like wowwiki)

Druid

Feral:

Cat form: 29% base reduction

Cower: -1170 (meh, not worth the effort)

Balance:

Subtlety: 3pt talent= 20% reduction

Shaman

Enhance:

Spirit Weapons: 1pt talent= 30% threat reduction (as of 2.3)

Elemental:

Elemental Precision: 3pt talent= 10% threat reduction

Paladin

Retribution:

-------

Mage

Frost/Fire:

2/3 pt talent= 10% threat reduction

Arcane:

Arcane Subtlety: 2pt talent= 40% threat reduction to arcane spells

Invisibility: Full threat dump (5 seconds)

Hunter

Feign Death: Full threat dump

Rogue

29% base threat reduction

Vanish: Full threat dump

Feint: -1050 threat (meh ,not worth the effort)

Priest

Shadow:

Shadow Affinity: 3pt talent= 25% threat reduction

Fade: spammable after each

Warlock

Destruction/Affliction:

2pt talents= 10% threat reduction

Demonology

Master Demonologist: 5pt talent= 20% threat reduction with Imp active (not really relevant)

Soul Shatter: 50% threat reduction(5 min CD)

Warrior

Battle Stance:

20% base threat reduction

Berserker Stance:

30% base threat reduction (as of 2.3)

And especialy for the aggro magnets (like Dark...) the subtlety enchantment on cloak. 2% aggro reduction is pretty nice on a regular basis...(Guild bank would be open for any who want that enchant)

This aggro dumping will make it possible to bring out more dps over the fights timespan,with less aggro switches or people standing around waiting for there threat to decay...

Koren

Raid Threat

#2
Good collection on threat Koren. Just want to add one thing.

Shadow priest, Fade is worthless, its a temporarily threat dump which is nice for healing priests since it takes then below the tank and if they hold back a little the tank has a chance to gain a threat lead again. For Shadowpriest which are Dot'ers our Dot's are still ticking so when fade is gone the threat temporarily removed is back and with Dot's building threat SP is ahead of the tank again so instead of dieing on the first threat pull you die 5 seconds after. Only difference is that the tank has now used his aggro pulling ability and the NPC is loose. Hope this made sence.

The only threat build SP's have are being soulstones and commit suicide with Shadow Word: Death. Resurrect and continue fighting. Cost a bit on the repair bill but its the only possibility we have to remove threat.

So for a SP its more important to watch Omen then anything else. For the rest of the dps it could be very handy to go all out, use their threat dump then go full out again. Use the threat dump as soon as the cooldown is up. At the start of the fight use it at 25-35 % that will give the tank a very nice lead and you can go all out the rest of the fight.

SP's should get a self battle ressurection like Shamans or a threat dump because I'm stuck to using dots and mindflay. No chance to use Mindblast or Shadow Word: Death until the very end when the tank is down and there are 5% left on the NPC hp bar.

Raid Threat

#3
Agree with pretty much all you said Andoor. Only comment/question i have is, that i thought that mindblast no longer causes extra threat. Afaik it was changed 1 or 2 patches ago (i might be totally wrong here, i havent done priest dps in a looong time) :)

Lostsoul

Raid Threat

#4
you are right it doesn't add extra threat but the dps will push you above the tank, and its mana inefficient so you need to stop dps'ing to both lower threat and regain mana. Its useful in fights with alot of movement like Shade of Aran, where you can't just stand in one stop and let loose. In fights with less movement dots and mf keeps me up there, unless my friend Q is there, I get to have much more fun with his threat reducer blessing.

The mana efficiency does up with +dmg and soon (when that sweet mace is mine) I'll use a more burst cycle with mindblast and Shadow Word:Death to up the dps on short fights.

Sorry for being unclear on that one.

Raid Threat

#8
Warlock

Destruction/Affliction:

2pt talents= 10% threat reduction

Demonology

Master Demonologist: 5pt talent= 20% threat reduction with Imp active (not really relevant)

Soul Shatter: 50% threat reduction(5 min CD)

There are a few problems regarding the threat reduction for locks:

I. The Imp. Drain Soul from the Affliction tree (2 pt talent) benefits mainly full Affliction locks and Affliction/Demo hybrids.

For the Destruction locks the talent is kinda useless since it only reduces the threat for Affliction spells and few Destro locks spec for any Affliction and they usually put all the remaining points in Demo tree for increased hp/mana/dmg.

For Affliction/Destro spec frankly this is a 2 point waste since all the dots and the spamming of SB/Incinerate generates so much threat that a mere -10% threat doesnt help at all.

II. Master demonologist is another thing. It gives huge threat reduction for any lock (trust me on this 1 Image ), but it also comes with a cost: in order to fully benefit from it u must spend 30 points in Demo tree.

I dont really know what is a Destro lock's dps compared to the threat it generates but -20% threat and a pally buff gets the threat down with 50%. The loss of points in Destro tree, and conseqquently the loss of some +dmg can be resolved by using either coe/cos depending if SB/Incinerate specced.

There are couple of builds here that might work for a MD/Destro hybrid:

1. http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/t...512200510500000

Demo tree:

A. u get increased hp and mana

B. Demonic Aegis gives another +30 dmg so ur FA gives now +130 dmg

C. U get -20% threat

Destro tree:

A. u get the cast time. same range, crit chance, and u can keep emberstorm

B. u loose Conflagrate and Shadow and Flame

2. http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/t...512202510000000

Imp.SB but this 1 can be switched with the alternate Cataclysm.

Basicaly the same but with a twist: loose Emberstorm this time and get Demonic Knowledge. The 15% given by DK is actually alot more if u buff up the imp with the same buffs that u get during the raid. I got this talent and with my imp fully buffed I get another +150 dmg. Combined with the DA that gives u +30 dmg ull compensate for the loss of emberstorm and Shadow and Flame talents.

Again, these are not tested. Tbh i would love to do it myself bu I really dont have any +crit gear and the results might be deceving....

Atm im running the following build:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents....;n=Ankhesenamun

As u can see I got a base of +780 spell dmg without the buffs. Fully buffed and without pots, elixirs, buff food, etc. I get to +1100 dmg just with FA on me and with my fully buffed imp out, and on top of that all I get my -20% threat.

II. Soul shatter

This instant -50% threat is cool. What is not cool is that if u casnt it and then in 5 mins u get aggroed again, ure kinda gone. Personally after using this I'm going only on dots for about 2-3 mins which basicaly means SL, COA, Corruption, Incinerate, and DL pretty much ignoring any urge to cast instant any SB that might proc and any Incinerate.

The ideal would be to stand in the range of a Tranquil Air totem and have a pally buff allso, but that aint gonna happen that ofthen...

Enough said, threat control for a lock is a bitch to say the least. This is all can I think of how to deal with it and if there is something wrong in my assesment plz correct it.

Raid Threat

#10
well with this new balance spec i must say, my dps is much higher then in cat form but threat is much higher also.

I could go for 15 point's in resto but that will just let my dps alot downfall.

I could also just burst damage and when i'm @tanks aggro i can go melle(wich on every hit i get bout 100mana extra back) until tank(s) have more aggro then me.

just let me know ;)

Return to “Dark Venom”