Tides of War

Some Food for thought .. and maybe a healthy discussion. One never really needs to point fingers, those that are guilty just seem to confirm same by example.

Recent Events.. prompt sharing a thought or two .. and do keep in mind.. it is simply my humble opinion.

League Managers should have cracked down on ALL pilots and ALL squads that continually cause problems a long time ago .. and specifically during matches. Language and hostile words have no real place for a friendly game environment.

Sys-Ops should be up in the air more often with Sys_Ops tags on. IMHO

Forums in all communities should have discussion topics about "conduct" ... what is

kewl and what is not kewl. IMHO, that is what forums are for.

--------------------- the line ------------------------------------

-The- Line was crossed a long time ago by several squads and many pilots. The vast majority of good pilots and squads are overshadowed by the few that are hell bent on disturbing the fun times of others... and ruining AA. With exception of maybe one squad, what I see now are all decent and rule abiding squads and members. Lets keep it that way. IMHO

There are dozens of good people that volunteer a lot of time and effort into this game .. for all. Yet it is the 'all' that rarely even thinks of that.. or worse does not even respectfully appreciates the work done. The game is free .. even that fact is not appreciated and recognized the way it should be.

It is not a RIGHT to be able to play our AA, it is a privilege. You are not asked to do anything but agree to abide by the CoC .. out of respect one should honor that. Without being told .. you should know right from wrong, etc ( unless maybe you are 12 or younger). You should know how to behave and be a Gentleman .. or Lady.

Only the CO's, XO's and leaders .. real leaders of the AA Community as a whole can bring social peer pressure on all pilots to fly with honor, follow the rules, don't do unto others because the did unto you, etc, and so forth. Yes, the golden rules. Pilots are OFFICERS and GENTLEMEN... not thugs and trouble makers. IMHO

Pilots in the USAAC Community that have a problem with other players should simply inform their CO .. or in the case of pilots not in a squad .. go directly to a USAAC Officer (USHA Kid or USAAC Staff members Temper or Tbar is a good start)

When you fly: RECORED. Send that recording in, but keep your mouth shut in the game. IMHO. When a pilot gets a notice about behavior or rule breaking .. then its part of the record and should be public info. IMHO I would not suggest that any pilot roll over and play dead, I know you are going to defend yourself when verbally attacked, but do it like a Gentleman and know when enough words have been said. Don't add to it.. and keep recording. Send it in.

We don't loose pilots due to anything but ourself as pilots running them out of the game. Yes.. running them off. Or worse.. we TEACH them to behave like animals with dirty mouths and acting like punks. How many squads in AA today have a CoC? How many squads in AA today that a CoC they enforce? How many pilots on any squad can pass a test asking a few simple questions about the General CoC they see every 24 hours .. they actually have to click a button before they can fly.. how many pilots can tell you what that says .. or even better ... what it means? How many squad actually discipline a pilot for breaking squad CoC or general AA CoC? How many Squad CO, Xo's reading this thread have kicked a pilot out of the squad in the last year for breaking squad CoC .. or breaking general AA rules and CoC ... and have been warned before?

Pilots and game players in general LIKE rules that are followed by ALL .. and are ENFORCED. It creates a fair and balanced playing field. IMHO

One might think that AA in General has a big problem with bad Squads and/or bad pilots .. I don't think we do. There is much more positive that goes on within AA then negative. Much more. What we do have a problem with is this: "being afraid". Yes.. afraid to enforce rules, afraid we might not be fair, afraid a ruling or action might bring us into a spotlight of controversy, afraid of being criticized for doing the right thing, etc... or too much paperwork were nothing will get done anyway .. or "its not worth it man". Just IMHO again.

Has this situation ever come up?

The few players that do get "life long bans" .. find there way right back into AA after some time. Why do we allow this? A pilot even admits too who they are and are told something similar to: "ok, but if you mess up.. " Fact is they should have been banned right off again once their identity is discovered. Don't ban them the first time "for life" if you don't mean it! IMHO

IMHO it all starts with the CO's, XO's and Leaders of the Squads. Squads set the example in AA IMHO. Pilots want to be a member of a squad in general (yes, some don't and wont' ever.. no problem). If you want a nice place to play, and one you are not embarrassed to bring your own family into, .. then, YOU must help keep the sandbox clean!

I do believe that WE taught many pilots to be "jerks" by example .. and not keeping to strict CoC , golden Rules, and what simply is right from wrong. Because you got runway'ed in FAA .. you feel you can 'get even' and runway back .. is wrong.

Again I say: Food for Thought. A good topic of discussion and not meant to point fingers at an individual or squad. In fact what I hope is that good pilots and good squads to take a self examination.

.. just a discussion man .. just a discussion.

I'm not sure, but I think my opinion is different to yours in this case. I have been flying AA for about 12 years. In all this time, it has never occurred to me to think of it as a privilege. I find it galling that someone who I do not know, and who does not know me, has the capacity or the desire to effect a life long ban on anyone. I suspect that most people will be of the same mind. A life long ban in this sense becomes a piece of rhetoric - and thank goodness for that!

If I look into the past, I see that my life is a very difficult thing to surmise. It is much easier to see it in terms of episodes, eras, themes. When I was 15 I was very almost expelled from school. By the letter of the law I should have been. Fortunately it didn't come to that, but the school would have been a better place without me, I'm pretty sure of that. 10 years on I am a highly successful academic. One day many people will benefit from me standing at the front of the class. So much of this is because the letter of the law meant less to my teachers (and the police) than a constructive way forward.

That day was the first day I ever respected a teacher.

Nor is this just a discussion. We are people who are engaging in a discussion, yes. But there is more to it than that. As people we have desires, objectives, an inclination as to what we want to do and what we think is right and wrong. Without this we wouldn't bother discussing anything like this at all. Eventually, many discussions may combine to create an idea. If that idea coincides with our desires or inclinations, we may convert it into an action. Thus this is a prelude to an action, just one in it's early stages. This is why I would ask you to be more specific. It is very difficult to discuss something so vague. As a prelude to an action a vague discussion is very dangerous because ideas that come from it are ambiguous. Thus it becomes nothing more than a license to enact our own desires, objectives and inclinations, except with the authority of having it previously 'discussed'.

It is this possibility, and I would be surprised if it were more than a possibility, that undermines the respect held for many authority figures in the first place.

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I just reread this and thought it might come across as inflammatory. Especially with what has been going on with FD recently. My point is put forward in good faith though; transparency of motive and relevance helps people to see where you're coming from. Without it they assume anything they want and before you know it people are disagreeing with what you say even before you say it.

Wow again Syn,

It is nice to see well thought and authored responses.

I happen to agree with the absense of the life long ban as you mention. Everybody changes, people grow up, peoples views and personalities change as experience and life dictate it to them. I am however in favor of a "system" or "method" in place for dealing with disruptions, disruptive pilots, abusive pilots etc etc. Being banned or punished in some way is part of the learning and experience process necesary to come to that conclusion IMO. It is NOT ok to continue a path of behavior that is destructive to the community.

I believe this "process" should involve more than one person and should have a "commitee" ( or more than just 1 or 2 ) people to say who gets banned etc etc so there is not a feeling of favoritism or exclusion or revenge.

This is why I Salute the organizations involved in this sort of affair within the communities. The USAAC for example. Everybody team is represented by a vote. Everybody has a chance to come and voice concerns and then have them discussed.

I feel honored to be part of that pocess. I do not agree with everybody and thier ideas but it is a place to be heard.

So in short I guess what I am trying to convey is that while life long ban is not necesarily a good idea ther idea of some sort of structure and authority within the game is indeed a good idea.

I dont want to nudge my nose in FD business but I for one would welcome back FD to the USAAC to be involved in this process. I personally do not want to see alienation of a squad. And I say that after personally being the "recipient" of "drama" for lack of a better word from certain players of FD.

Again I wish greatly for FD to be part of the process again and hopefully be a learning experience for all.

Tbar,

I read your post again as it was very long and i missed some of the points.

I agree with alot that you say there.

I also do however have concern about the topic of your thread. Please tell me you are not calling any particular pilot "an idiot" and especially naming a topic as such.

I would also like to disagree with your observation of all squads being pretty much well behaved except for one squad. Although I know you are talking about FD it is unfair to rule them as the squad with the problems of aa on thier shoulders. remeber also that it takes 2 to tango. There are members of other squads and solo pilots who engage in this behaviour occasionally too. And because of past anomosities that have not been forgotten etc the situation is volatile at any moment. It is not like their goal is to constantly be on the attack or come in soley to have issues. Syn has shed some light on the foundation points of why some of the things happen.

There probably is a better way to clarify your statement. Unless thats how you really feel then i would submit that you are wrong on FD being the only squad or members involved in conflict.

This debate started from an incident that resulted in a squad being banned from a competition. Not much has been said by the administration about the nature of the incident or the reasons for their actions.

Syn has eloquently described what he sees as his squad?s position and the court of public opinion is now in full cry. Opinions based on very little hard evidence are being expressed about whether the action of the administration was justified. I, for one, would hesitate to form any opinion on so little knowledge. Frankly it would seem that the squad in question has, through Syn?s eloquence succeeded in putting the administration on trial.

As I see it we all have two options. We can place our trust in the administrators? judgment or we can demand that they justify their decision. I certainly would not join any such demand. I am prepared to accept that the administration was in full possession of the facts?film and a record of the dialogue that took place?and made their decision based on these facts. My understanding is that the decision was not made by one person but by a team. Whether they should make the evidence available to the entire community is arguable.

As the incident occurred during a match there are obviously witnesses. The members of the other squad in the match must have witnessed the events. One of them, in fact, is a referee in his own right. They must know what happened and whether there is substance to the complaint. I would assume that input from them was part of the administration?s enquiry.

I agree wholeheartedly with the view that most of the squad?s members are decent people and it is a shame that they all must bear the stigma ensuing from this incident. If the problem arises from one or more troublemakers in their ranks, however, it is the squad?s duty to deal with that and not to allow it to adversely affect their squad as a whole. Loyalty to one?s friends or team mates is, up to a point, admirable but not to the extent of defending bad behavior. If the squad cannot or will not control the behavior of one or more of their members then they must share responsibility for that behavior.

From everything that I have read in various posts on this topic I tend to think that the real problem arose from frustration caused by being outnumbered aggravated by intense feelings of past injustices. I have every sympathy for Syn?s position. I have often observed him in the arenas and he always conducts himself in a pleasant and sporting manner. I believe he is a victim of very difficult circumstances. He has no part in the feud that exists between certain individuals but the squad to which he is loyal is suffering from its effects.

I do not have a long term solution to offer. It is up to each squad to keep their house clean or suffer the collective consequences. As far as the particular incident is concerned I believe the decision has been made by our administration in good faith and we should support that decision.

It is very difficult for anyone from FD to comment on this without inflaming things. I think it is important, however, that we avoid phrases like 'putting the administration' on trial. By saying that the post 'succeeded' in doing this makes it read like that was one of the purposes of the post. I'm sure this is not what you meant - but I needed to clarify for anyone else who visits. It was essential that FD post something, the debate is the consequence of a very big and very important decision being made. Of course FD feel victimized. We have done our best to handle this, however, in a way that acknowledges our contributions to the troubles. We have tried to be fair in our appraisal of things.

Further, the decision was not made by our administration - i do not know who that is. The decision to leave 2squad was made by FD when we unanimously decided not to apologize to the referee. The decision to ask FD to apologize or leave 2squad was made by the league master. The decision to shoot friendly planes in 2squad was made by FD. The decision to wind FD up was made by the referee. The decision to get wound up was made by FD. The decision not to forfeit on the spot was made by FD. The decision to referee a sensitive match was made by the referee.

The subsequent decision to revoke our C/O's sysop status, treat him like a fool who's not in a difficult situation himself, has now been made. Our C/O told us who made this decision, however they may just have been the messenger, so I cannot confirm who was involved. Such things are why, inferno, it is very unreasonable to expect FD to return to the USAAC any time soon. We would be foolish to pretend that we are welcome when decisions like this are being made. If I have the wrong end of the stick here then it is essential that I am informed of this immediately. Otherwise I have just seen a good and fair man kicked in the moral teeth.

The decision to leave the game hereafter was made by our C/O. Other members have already intimated that they will do the same. FD may not exist soon. Who's decision that will be lord only knows. The way things are looking it will not be an FD member's. I have not asked permission to divulge that information and I may well have broken someone's trust here. I'm finding this a very painful episode. I am very upset. I am beginning to get angry over how it is being handled. People who are making decisions are doing so without any sensitivity for those who are affected. It is up to FD members to support each other right now. It is up to the community leaders not to send more bricks our way.

The thread in the ukaac forums is currently not there. It seems this may be because the ukaac has had to revert to a backup after a server crash.

I cannot comment on whether the evidence should be released because I am too close to the situation. Any comment I make would make it difficult for someone to choose any other option without seeming unreasonable. As for the feud, I can choose not to be a part of it any time I like - I can simply leave FD. I choose to stay and I choose to be involved. The squad is not the victim of the feud, the squad is not a victim in any shape or form.

I'm sorry if I've come across here as curt - we all know that frustrated feeling when we just want to explode. In such a mood it is next to impossible to word what I have to say in a neutral manner. Sadly it cannot wait until I calm down, either.

SYn I hear your frustration.

I will say no more than this.

Whatever the reasons are, if a squad wants to "take their ball and leave the schoolyard" in more than one instance than perhap the problems lies not within the schoolyard but within the person leaving.

I wish the best for your squad.

The decision to wind FD up was made by the referee.

Syn M8,

With the utmost respect for you and your posting, which I have read, I believe the above quote is off track. Taking into consideration that if in fact there was any winding up by the ref then I'm sure the outcome or decision would have been different.

I understand the deep rooted problems with some pilots that go as far back as the Hatfields and McCoys but the match is a match were a ref must be present and I belive it wasn't by that ref's choice but rather to be there for the game with no malice.

The only true way to let this rest is for everyone with doubt about the Admins decision is for everyone to view the film which I believe is an impossibility thus relying on the staff that made there decision and imposed there condition.

I wish you and the rest of the 95% of FD maintain that bond and all indifferences work there way out.

Salute

It may have been best if I hadn?t responded at all to this topic but I did. In doing so I tried to be diplomatic out of respect for Syn who, I?m sure, is a good person and I still think he is caught up in something not of his own making. Sometimes, however, diplomacy only leads to further misunderstanding and gives opportunities for various interpretations. Syn now reveals that he is angry and has chosen to play semantics with what I wrote. I will, therefore, re-state my view in more blunt and, hopefully, more comprehensible language.

Many of us have cause to be angry at the behavior of certain individuals, three of whom belong to FD. On a previous occasion, out of anger, I named them but will not do so again. I and others have been continuously targeted and harassed by these individuals. Despite many complaints, FD chose to retain them within its ranks.and to defend their bad behavior. Well it seems the time has come for FD to pay the price for that decision. FD and FD alone is responsible for its fate. I for one refuse categorically to feel any guilt or to be intimidated by any ?anger? emanating from that squad. I no longer belong to any squad largely because I do not wish to be associated with any inter squad feuds. I have very good friends in the community but I no longer feel obliged to support anyone?s bad behavior because they happen to belong to the same squad as myself.

I have no more to say on the subject.