What is going on?

I am not a master of the words so from the beggining i wanna apologies if this will sound harsh .

There have been almost 3 weeks now since DV is in a raiding break , a break that should relax people and make them come back with new strenght for more progression. What i have noticed is that what is going on in DV is not a break but a falling apart time, people are always busy on doing something else than try and make this guild what it was . People applying to new guilds , thinking of leaving, freezing their accounts and all because there is no one on in the guild. When a raid is up, people prefer playing their alliance than come and help...dont get me wrong everybody is playing the way they want to but then guys please let the rest of us know what are your intentions, cause not everybody is an Ingo member and some of us are waiting to see which direction this guild will go to...

We are on every day...the few people that still come on line in DV , and wait to see what will go on..

I dont know what to think atm i love DV, i love the people in this guild but i also love raiding with them, and if you lot are not interested in raiding anymore let the rest know, so everyone can make a decision.

Again i wanna apologies if i offended someone that wasnt my intention, i just dont wanna see this guild falling apart.

I am afraid I am actually going to agree with Carolline on this one. I obviously do not have the history that most of you do with FI and Tribes, but in the year or so I have been part of first FI and then DV I have, I hope, grown to know many of you and I love raiding and questing and instancing with you all.

Basically, first and foremost, I adore raiding. That is what I play this game for. I love healing raids, I love bieng in a big group of people all overcoming the same obstacles, doggedly repeating a seemingly impossible task until it is completed. I have seriously enjoyed being in DV and totally appreciated the friendship and support I have been given by everyone here.

I understand that people have felt frustrated and that a break has been required for whatever reasons, but this is, first and foremost, supposed to be a raiding guild And apart from the one we had for Gruul which was valiantly organised and supported by Caro and Kint and all of those who managed to make it, there has been no raiding for quite a few weeks.

As caro said, if people have no further interest in playing their main characters and would prefer to play on their alliacne guild, I am the first to understand that. I have a husband who is RL in an alliance guild on TH and I have a 70 priest who is in a semi active guild also on TH, so I totally understand that people have other interests and are enjoying doing other things But I would also like to know how the guild, in general, feels about both the present and future. I myself would like to continue raiding. I have loved doing the instances and raids we have done and would like to continue to raid .. I do not come on as much as I did before, mainly because when I am on if I am not raiding, most of the time both Tribes and DV are empty.

It might be that I am just missing people and am not on when others are .. if this is the case I apologise.

As you all pretty much know .. if I am required and someone lets me know either on the forums or by MSn that something is happening, if I am able to (kids permitting) I will be there

Please let us know what is happening !!!

/hug

Well I wanna say some words too...As I said in the last raid if ppl dont wanna play Horde anymore just go Alliance...I dont have a Ingo character and I dont wanna have one but I can make some conclusions of this: if ppl are playing Ingo characters that means they have time to play and will but not on the Horde side. And I am bothered by that because I could use some help with some quests and instance and always have to beg someone or take a pug because DV members prefer to play freaking Ingo allaince chars. If you are tired of DV or tired of doing something usufull for some of us who still need help just say so we know about it. I have more characters too, on this server and others, but I love to play this char and I love ppl here and the time spend together but pls do something about it. It's very hard to progress somewhere (not only raiding but with gear too) if any hepl cant be find in guild cause are onyl 2-3 ppl online only.

For those who are ready to say that Evelline was not online too latelly I say this: why come online with her if I see that DV is empty??? Prefer to lvl up a smaller char then wondering around like lunatic and hoping for nothing.

Anyway this situation is going to something bad: the breaking of DV. You ppl dont care fine. You dont have time for it fine. But just say so and dont pretend something else when the reality is obvious.

Anyway I will stay here and see what is gonna be next. And anyway I formed an opinion of myself about some guildies and their behaviour. Hope the situation will clear in the next 2-3 weeks most and became clear the way each of us will follow.

I have always Loved my Hunter and I have always loved horde over Alliance...

I havnt been alot online on R?ne and the one time I was signed up for something I was stranded with family issues I could not run from... and no internet.... how bad did I feel then :s

When I have been online lately it has been on G?lraen my lvl 70 priest, mostly to pvp and chat, and the few times I have been on R?ne I loged because beeing alone in a guild to me is pure pain.. I like the laughs and giggels that belong in a guildchat... I can understand if people say we are having a summerbreak, but surly some people still need badges to get better gear and need heroics or kara or rep.. well something!

Like I have my horde alts I can understand that people want to see how it is to play alliance. I have no problem with people wanting to play new chars at all.. I have a problem when people dont give info if they are interested in well something... a heroic dont take as long time as a normal raid I know but at least something happens and some of the people that dont have alts or dont wanna play alliance can have some fun too...

Im no master myself when it comes to words but I see the importense in getting it out into the open, so thank you Caro for writing about what some of us was just thinking or keeping to ourselfs

Right enough blabbeling and ruskumsnusk from me

let me start by saying, I can understand any confusion / feeling of awkwardness.

what I don't like is people trying to blame others for their feelings when they have no idea if the opinion they formed is correct.

We have stated that raiding is on a break as a guild.

The guildleader has left and of the remaining officers only 2 are online (a lot). This has been announced and explained.

Now you state yourself we are a raiding guild. for now raiding is put to a hault for over the summer and the available raids are on an interestbase.

you are complaining about something else. about not seeing any ppl online outside raidtimes. well sorry but nowhere did I see any posts asking for groups or fun activities outside of raiding. All I saw were free for all raidinitiatives. And seeing it was on a signup basis, ppl not signing up clearly can't join that night. If that means that the raid starts and there is noone at 20.00 and ppl log on at 21.00 on their alt (be it ingo or otherwise0 you can NOT conclude that ppl only wanna play their alts and are rude or have other intentions. I think people had the courtesy of not signing up when knowin they can't commit to the raid so not getting other ppls hopes up.

The ingos is a nice breather, it has nothing to do with wanting to play alliance.

As long as we are on a break you will have to try and organise things. Like lafey said: contact via: forum/msn. As long as we are on a break raiding is free for all so don't feel sad when nobody signs up.

I think some of you are p----- off at something and are trying to blame ppl for taking a breather and enjoying their alts. I would advise you to rethink the situation and ask advice from the officers before you start pointing fingers.

If you have any questions or want to do something make ppl aware on the forums its not that difficult.

Hope this sheds some light on the situation.

Cheerz

Yorga

Though I fully understand that this lack of raiding is not nice for the people that do want to raid, you are making it sounds like "the ingo's" are to blame. The Ingo's basically fulfilled a need for a group of people (and not that big a group, actually) that did not want to raid anymore and did not want to put a large amount of time into the game, but was still looking for the social part of wow. So...those people, myself included, would not have raided anyway, Ingo or no Ingo. Also, I think you are largely overestimating the time the Ingo's actually play on their Ingos.

So I think it went more like 1. no more raiding -> 2. Ingo's, instead of 1. Ingo's -> 2. no more raiding. Btw, it has nothing to do with wanting to play alliance. We just came up with something that's the opposite of what we did now, so alliance/rp/pvp realm.

You can be all nasty about it (Evelline) but you are not going to bully me into raiding (and just to be clear, I'm just talking about myself here).

Well, that's for the Ingo's anyway.

Further, I hope the guild(s) will come to a good solution. I myself have not the time for raiding at the moment, as earlier stated in my topic. I'm not sure if I'll continue to play my mage after, and I think I might even wait till WotLK arrives. This has nothing to do with the guild and his people, I've always enjoyed your company! It's just the repetitiveness and hours or preparation for doing the same thing over and over that killed my fun in raiding.

Though I hope that a good solution will arise for the people that do want to raid. I think you will probably have to step up and take over the reigns of the leaders that usually organised all the raids, but are now tired of it or don't have time for it. The organisation is so much work, that it should be done by people who really care about/ have fun in raiding and want to make it work!

Without being bleak or anything, when the majority of DV player pool is elsewhere, Im afraid there cannot be a fast, or easy solution to 25 man raiding problems.

I dont care much for PvP, but its all Ive been doing recently. I enjoy it but much prefer the PvE style of play, especially high end.

But I don't understand the point In making, and then resting a well geared level 70 character and claiming its a summer break when you are online on another server.

If it was a summer break, we'd probably all be off WoW and getting some sun (shame theres none in UK atm).

I think players have a right to be angry in all honesty, Im not angry just a little bemused in the point of having a level 70 and then doing something else.

So in essence there is no summer break, just people playing on another server, refreshing themselves from strenuous 25 man stuff?

Has anyone looked at DV's initial goals when being set up, or established?

http://wow.tidesofwar.net/dv/goals.htm

The following goals have been identified as targets for the guild, once established.

It is unclear yet whether these may be too aggressive, or not aggressive enough, depending on joiners, and will be revised as needed.

- Kara - on farm

- Gruul - on farm

- Magtheridon - in progress

- Zul Aman - in progress

- Serpentshrine - just started

- The Eye - just started

- Mount Hyjal, Black Temple; TBD

Of course we will keep pushing as hard as possible to achieve new goals as soon as possible

I want to push hard, as It seems others do, which I guess is why this post exsists, maybe a reality check needed for those who want the 25 man content regulary?

In no way am I trying to make matters worse, I have listed things as I see them, and think we need proper answers, just simply " I dont enjoy 25 man It stresses me out" or whatever it actually is, because having a Karazhan cancelled when we had the player pool active online in WoW is upsetting.

As hils said, and maybe some of the other people asking questions (pointing fingers) here might also think...

But I don't understand the point In making, and then resting a well geared level 70 character and claiming its a summer break when you are online on another server.
If it was a summer break, we'd probably all be off WoW and getting some sun (shame theres none in UK atm).

there is a difference between being online on a different server and raiding from 20.00 to 23.00

maybe that wasn't really obvious to some, but being on a break means not restricting yourself to timetables and raidtimes. if you really want to make an effort at doing something go make a post recruiting ppl to do something instead of questioning ppls motives.

it has been stated before: its summer, ppl are on holidays, preparing for holidays, getting chores and jobs done that are not possible during the rest of the year, have new families, new homes etc. There is a decrease in player availability for 3 hours on end and full attention on raiding.

you confuse raiding with being online.... that is not the same thing. When i'm online on an alt I can go for a snack break, or stand around reading up on the internet, of have phone conversations or entertain guests etc.... unless you think you can do the same while raiding I think you can see these are 2 totally different things.

Nobody who are now enjoying the break and playing on their alts has stated that they wish to quit raiding completely because that is not the case.

Having the mistrust of ppl who apparently do not want a break and accusations to the address that: because you enjoy spending time on a different server / alt while the guild is on a formally mentioned break you are a heathen and you should question your integrity and your obligation to the guild.... is not a very well thought out plan of approach to bring the guild "back together".

its very easy to point fingers at everyone who isn't doing what you think they should be doing, but what have you done lately? have you made posts asking people to join you in an adventure? only thing you have done is mentioned that you made the commitment to raid from 20.00 to 23.00 on a specific evening when asked if you'd like to. where other ppl in your guild have courteously not made that commitment for a specific evening. Nothing wrong there in my opinion.

Yet you come here and go point fingers at the ppl who courteously did not get your hopes up because they knew they could not make the commitment needed for that evening?

May I ask how you think this is helping anything? are you really here to get answers? or to point fingers and hope ppl will say.... "well if you put it like that, yes, I don't want to raid with you, now run along and go raid with erm..... yeah with whom?" I don't see how the posts made by the disgruntled ppl will bring a guild back together. You have not explored anything you simply come here and make assumptions and accusations.

yeh we was so bored latly that we went 5 man bt and downed an old world boss with just 6 of us , i can understand if peeps want to do something else , thats there own choice , but then the rest of us (the ones that r online almost daily) should also make an attempt to take over raiding and find new well geared skilled players to push for the end. if not we might aswell just dump dv and go seek our fortune elsewhere.

but because we have gd fun toghether we should atleast try.

Hi folks,

I appreciate that an "official" statement is perhaps overdue. This is my semi-official statement, since it is from my standpoint as a grumpy, furry quadruped without discussion with my fellow DV officers.

1. Raid organisation

Lafey, you mentioned the "valiantly organised and supported" Gruul raid. I don't disagree. What I would like to point out is that this applies equally to the organisers of every single raid we have ever run. It just might not be so obvious to the participants. Even the raids we are oversubscribed rather than undersubscribed, since not everyone takes missing out lightly.

Asbach's hibernation was a catalyst for many people, myself included, who felt they had been stretching themselves to raid because they felt - rightly or wrongly - that without them the raid wouldn't run or else be too gimped to achieve anything.

I've personally found new time in the evenings that I had lost before. Typically I spent an hour per raid in preparation, invites, post raid discussions etc. More if you count maintaining karma. I'd hate to think how much Koren & Asbach were spending also.

Maybe this load could have been spread around a bit more. The fact is, most of us have real lives, jobs & families to attend to that preclude them from taking on these responsibilities. Since the raid hiatus, quite a few folk have started to re-appreciate their time outside WoW - as well as ingame.

Which brings me to Progression...

2. Progression

One of the key motivators to play is progression. Its easy to see progression as, say, an Ingo. There's a good chance each time you play you'll gain a level, a talent point, a new spell. Come the end game its different. Even hard-core guilds take many invested hours to progress. DV I think has perhaps reached, or even exceeded, where it can get to with a relatively casual approach.

To my mind, this is not so much a Summer break as reminiscent of the collapse of raiding pre-TBC.

What's needed to get further into the end-game? Concentrating on set dungeons, even when you feel you've done them to death. Re-emphasis on concentrating - that means not watching TV, listening to music etc at the same time. If you are concentrating on the audio-visual alerts in game I maintain that no add-ons are actually needed. Focus on mains. Focus on PvE (except where PvP is required for a specific upgrade). Re-emphasis on focus - listening to the instructions, watching the debuffs and spotting where a tank is having to taunt back. Discipline. Being there on time and raid-ready. That's on top of the basics like maximising kit with gems, enchants, mana oils, sharpening stones and stat food.

Can we do that? Maybe, maybe not. Sure as my backside is hairy its going to require some folk to step forward and make it happen. We've now lost sufficient numbers of raiders that 25 mans are going to be hard to achieve.

Which brings me to Lack of People Online...

3. Lack of People Online

As has already been mentioned, the sudden popularity of running around Dun Morogh sporting a red beard is I believe due to the halt in raids, rather than the other way around. Of the active Ingos, there are actually only about half a dozen that were previously active raiders. Raiding also takes a lot of farming to support. I think thats where some of the drop in online presence comes from (mine certainly, as I farm herbs for two).

As Yorga points out, there's a big difference between raiding and being online, especially for folk like Koren with the Tadpole Boss to cater to. Of course I would like to see more activity in DV/Tribes. Be it for raids, dungeons, questing, PvP or just silly activities. But that is something I cannot enforce on you, the (mostly) unfurry masses.

Which brings me to you, the (mostly) unfurry masses.

4. The (Mostly) Unfurry Masses

So, I throw it back over to you. Where do you want DV to go? I perfectly understand that the likes of Caro, Lafey and Eve wish to see more raid content. Do we have a hard core of people wanting the same, that are prepared to put in the organisational effort and adhere to the discipline needed? In this bear's opinion they would be a smaller, more elitist group by necessity.

Or would folding back into the respective parent guilds and raiding 25 mans as Tribes in an ad-hoc manner restore the online presence and still satisfy the desire to raid?

I'll end this wall of text with a quote from Joe, "because we have good fun together we should at least try."

/bux