Tides of War

As a married man, Destroyer, you should understand that the last word is a prerogative of women.

Almost everything that has been said in these posts has validity. We are, believe it or not, all saying pretty much the same thing. We all want to see a pleasant playing environment and yes it's not just a chosen few who are at fault. We can all share responsibility for things we have done and said that set a poor example. Recent events have only served to make us take a closer look at ourselves and to make us more determined to improve. Like I said before the USAAC community is going a long way to achieve that.

I really don't know how life time bans got into this...probably something tbar said, but anyone with networking knowledge knows it is impossible to find a means of implementing life time bans. There are many ways of changing ip addresses etc. In any event, no one has been banned for life nor should be. A squad was banned for the duration of a league competition and that really has been the substance of the present debate. There is ample room for debate on the subject because innocent people have suffered from this and Syn has been an admirable advocate for that point of view.

I conclude by reiterating that the type of debate evidenced in this thread is both fun and healthy. It has been constructive, well debated and, hopefully, hasn't offended too many people.

Your post, Destroyer, like the others in this thread, is thoughtful and relevant but please, don't be pessimistic. Never give up on peoples ability to do the right thing occasionally.

Good points Destroyer.

However in my view this game is fun. It has alot of stressful moments for different reasons.

I will continue to speak up as long as I am able too. bad behavior and attacks on other people should not be tolerated any longer. Past is past. I dont know who all the pilots who have anomosities towards each other, All I know is that if we continue to allow it it indeed is not fun and cannot become fun except for those who thrive on this disfunction.

I respect you and your view destroyer as you know. If you do not have fun then maybe you need to join USHA. we have fun!! lol

I do not have fun posting in forums of these situations but I feel it necesary.

Salute

Fern

Tbar and joker were cold guns in ffa. I complained about it and they gave me a bunch of crap.All squads should and have to kill each other in ffa. Tbar u do alot of good for the game but u got some bad in you also. No one is perfect and I am a a-hole sometimes but your sermon is not logical without admitting your faults and your squads faults in the game. I appreciate the work you do greatly but you are not a angel. Well maybe a angel with some devilish tendecies.

Tbar and joker were cold guns in ffa. I complained about it and they gave me a bunch of crap.All squads should and have to kill each other in ffa. Tbar u do alot of good for the game but u got some bad in you also. No one is perfect and I am a a-hole sometimes but your sermon is not logical without admitting your faults and your squads faults in the game. I appreciate the work you do greatly but you are not a angel. Well maybe a angel with some devilish tendecies.

FFA is suppose to be hot at all times for all squad members. However there are some pilots who seem fit not to shoot each other for different reasons and in different situations.Luckily that does not happen to an excess.

record the events Skystar, zip and send them to the sysop team.

if it becomes a problem then, what you say you and I dish out some FFA justice on these swine!!! i hit them from the top, you hit them from the side! Soon they will beg to be shooting each other!!

DAM aegle thats a big plane !!!!!

nICE SHOT

Tbar and joker were cold guns in ffa. I complained about it and they gave me a bunch of crap.....

You may start a thread on that.. but this thread would ask to stay on the main topic without pointing fingers at any one particular person, group or infraction. BTW.. it is your opinion teaming was occurring .. not a fact.

There is a lot of 'wonderful' within this post. It is good. It is positive. It may actually influence a lot of fine people.

Key statements I made in the opening post:

Only the CO's, XO's and leaders .. real leaders of the AA Community as a whole can bring social peer pressure on all pilots to fly with honor, follow the rules, don't do unto others because the did unto you, etc, and so forth. Yes, the golden rules. Pilots are OFFICERS and GENTLEMEN... not thugs and trouble makers. IMHO /tbar

I think this topic thread is finally getting there..

I do believe that WE taught many pilots to be "jerks" by example .. and not keeping to strict CoC , golden Rules, and what simply is right from wrong. Because you got runway'ed in FAA .. you feel you can 'get even' and runway back .. is wrong. /tbar

I would point out that there are technical problems with life long bans which make them difficult to maintain...... /Del

Deleriux.. you are very correct and I can appreciate that. What I don't understand is a pilot that has been banned for life.. comes back to the game .. admits who he is .. and is allowed to stay in the game. My point being don't call it a "Ban for Life" if -WE- can't enforce it. Maybe another thread on this topic?

Tbar you preach fun in every post and that is great but when was the last time you had it in the game? /destroyer

I have fun all the time my friend.. and lots of it. I had a lot of fun visiting your squads Team Speak a few nights ago. I have fun visiting with all the players on their own home Team Speak.

I had fun establishing this site and helping the USAAC do something wonderful

I had fun working with the USAAC Co's and Xo

I had fun helping develope the USAAC Leagues

I had fun helping develope the USAAC Fun Event system

I had fun working with Tulla and Tank on the CLP systems .. things we can do.. etc

I have fun making YOU chase me around the map. It was YOUR choice to do so, if it was NOT fun for you.. turn off and go attack someone else

I don't have fun in teams when I have to fly for 15 minutes to get up to the Alt monkeys. When this happens I try and fly a LOW game .. if its not working.. I simply leave and come back later.

The list goes on .. I have fun most of the time or I would not be here. I have choices of MANY games and groups to spend my time with.

I have a TON of fun in AA flying in the events, leagues, practices ..

This past week I had a ball working with a few USAAC Squads and a special practice with the BSS. We opened a room called the USAAC and it spontaneously turned into an impromptu event that was wonderful .. and tons of fun.

Honestly.. I have fun all the time.... especially when I can team up with some bro's

This past week I had a ball introducing a new plan to the USAAC that I think will have a great impact on the community .. and in many ways .. can put to work some of the positive behavior we would like to see in pilots.. catch'em young .. train'em right sort of thing.

I have a lot of fun

I do preach.

What I preach is simply doing the right thing. Follow the rules, the CoC .. be a good guy. People don't like that for some reason .. so I have stopped that practice in the air, and taken other approaches .. such as this post to get others to think on what "I am trying to say .. and don't have the writing skills to do so in only a few words". I am too wordy .. guilty

If you want this game to return to it's glory days then everyone just needs to do the right thing, in reality thats all it takes. Laughter is addicting but unfortunately so is hate and animosity. /destroyer

I'll drink to that.. and support it! Everyone .. just do that right thing.

Take a long hard look around you gentleman or any one that reads this post for that matter. Is this your definition of fun after 12 years ? Tbar you run other servers with a greater number of people on at any given time playing some of the most popular games available. Why are these types of posts prevelant to the Air Attack boards and not so elsewhere? Could it be that everyone is having to much fun to notice? /destroyer

You asked .. and it goes hand in hand with "community behavior" so I'll answer .. but most will NOT like the answer.

Administrative involvement that can be seen.. LIVE and NOW.

To compare those 'other' server and games to this one I would have to paint a picture:

Sysops will Admin FIRST, and play SECOND.

They have their tools 'ready'. Then they read forum posts or their email while they monitor. They are clearly present within the game with Administrative tags on. They are sitting on a Community Team Speak .. not a squad TS. Most of the time they would 'sit' on the runway just monitoring the game chat and observing what they can. When a complaint is made .. or a violation is observed .. those SysOps address that right on the spot with the pilot involved. Normally the pilot response would be similar to:

>> Sorry, I didn't know that. Ok."

>> OK, sysop.. sorry.

>> Yes sir

>> Wait a minute.. he did that too me first! SysOps Response: .. but YOU got caught. Announcement to all: You cannot shoot a pilot/aircraft on the runway .. or just taking off. ( no action is taken by sysops.. but a note is made in his personal files so if that pilot does it again .. the sysops can take stronger action next time.

>> Why you damn F***er!! SysOps response: Immediate kick. The pilot can come right back in.. but.. he's getting the picture that you can't use that type of language. Pilot Returns and says " Why the F*** did you kick me!! Sysops response: Push a button and now kick the pilot from the game for ONE minute. Pilot returns after one minute and ask strongly again "why was I kicked!!... sysops says nothing.. but another pilots says "Your language dude .. you can't curse in there... The offending pilot does not reply, and does not curse again. I this case .. servers such as *I* run .. don't even allow acronyms such as : WTF, OMFG, etc.. they are all cursing.

In many cases the SysOps would broadcast that he's on TS if anyone wants to join him. Now we have "interaction" usually in a very positive manner .. and results. SysOps can .. and do .. teach the 'right thing'.

Also on these 'other' servers.. they don't burden down the Sysops with "paperwork and films". Its like this .. if you put that man in that position to start with .. let him to the job .. not paperwork. If you don't like the job he is doing .. remove him. Remember .. this guy is LIVE and is THERE .. so he knows what the situation is.

When it is odd hours .. and there are no SysOps on line .. then the films is the only recourse. However because there are SysOps on a lot .. there are a lot less films .. and a lot more players KNOW the rules and RESPECT the rules.

Like I said .. you won't like that answer. What I get is emails that thank me for having servers where there are admins on duty and make sure the game play is fair and clean and even balanced .. they don't necessarily like all the rules .. but return to that server and play because it is 'monitored' and they don't have to hear on the coms all the 'crap'. You don't see as much 'hate' posting on the boards because the social environment is set in advance as to what is acceptable behavior.... as well as the 'rules'.

So tell me these veterans that are teaching the newcomers the bad habits and attitude! You can't because you would have to include yourself, me and every other veteran flying the game. /destroyer

IF.. your statement is valid .. then I will here and now admit my guilt and vow to change my ways .. address this with my squad .. adopt a CoC that we WILL LIVE WITH AND ENFORCE... If my squad won't do such a thing .. then I will change to a squad that will (if they will have me). Would you do that same?

Ask a question .. how many squads have a squad CoC that they enforce? It is the members of the squads that teach the bad habits .. it is the Co's of the squads that don't tell their pilots "you can't and won't act like that and be a member of this squad". It is a member of a squad that see one of his own out of line .. and never says anything ( because he does not want to get involved, but I say.. he did worse than the offender because HE knows.. and said nothing!)

As I said .. I truly believe it is the Co's and Xo's that influence the over all game behavior more than any post or rule .. it all has to start at "home" IMHO.

If every Co and Xo .. really enforced their own CoC .. I suggest that a topic of this nature would never have been needed. Am I saying that Squad Co's and Xo's are the full blame of all sins .. of course not, but .. they are important community LEADERS.

I ask another question to all squads: Have you accepted a pilot into your squad .. that was kicked out of another squad because of behavior problems? Maybe .. what you are 'teaching' that pilot is that your squad does not care about the behavior.. ?? Maybe? Where you so hard up for pilots .. that you can ignore what they did .. someplace else? Some other time? Well.. that was before.. etc?? What are you really saying?

It has been suggested here in this thread that "Tbar" is not a saint. Clearly I am not, have made my share of mistakes, have been wrong at times, etc. But, I'm big enough to try and correct the error's of my ways and move forward. In some cases YOU feel I'm wrong .. but I do not. That is simply opinion at times. I love this game .. I work had for this game .. I work hard for all the players .. and yet I have no real 'title of importance' nor do I have any positions within the CLP system that gives me any 'powers'.... all I really have is the opportunity to discuss the game with my peers .. like this thread WE .. can make the FUTURE what WE want, we do NOT have to continue as in the PAST. As for the 'good old days' .. I bet they had their problems also, however we can strive to bring that good old days feelings into the current.....

I conclude by reiterating that the type of debate evidenced in this thread is both fun and healthy. It has been constructive, well debated and, hopefully, hasn't offended too many people. /Aegle