Tides of War

In the beginning...

... I would like to see a rule that states you must fly a recognizable tag during League events. ... ...
I would like to see a rule that states a squad flies all their players, as long as the sides are even. I am aware that the "extra" players could be kept waiting outside the arena, but the honor system would have to apply here.

Fellas, I really believe both these items are hurting our beloved game. I look forward to reading your comments, whether you agree with me or not.

At the end ..

To those that agreed with me, thank you.
To those that disagreed with me, thank you. You brought up some very valid points that I hadn't thought of.

My Comments...

This is/was a great discussion thread .. and lets remember it is discussion. No Rules are being changed. No Voting on a Rule Change is taking place .. it is a discussion on possible 'future' league rule changes.

Let's remember that each Community makes its own league rules. I see that all Communities try to adhere to the same 'main set' of rules, but in the end each Community decides on its own. I think this is the way it works.

I've learned a lot here .. hope all the other readers have as well. What is obvious to me is that people who really love this game and really want to see the 'best' for everyone sure put their time and effort in here with their replies. What I have seen in this thread is not only the intellect, but the people that really care .. thank you all.

I've also seen in this thread idea's and comments that merrit their own Topic.

Is it time to close this topic wiht a good 'recap' by Temper? Afterall, we can always reopen a new thread at the right time .. or even this one.

I know equal numbers is fairest! We are however talking about the problem of different numbers in each half and the issue of tactically dropping pilots to gain an advantage. Have we have given up on solving this?

Hi Gari M8,

I agree totally with the same number of flyers in both halves!

I have re-read this thread again but fail to see where anybody has disagreed with the same amount of pilots rule for both halves.

maybe I have just mis-read where that discussion was happening.

If one squad starts GE and and flys 8 then loses pilots in second half then maybe there should be a penalty to them like giving up the point if they did indeed win that round. And also let second team fly the 8 they started with against. If a team loses pilots due to connection then so be it! Tough break.

Inferno

I know equal numbers is fairest! We are however talking about the problem of different numbers in each half and the issue of tactically dropping pilots to gain an advantage. Have we have given up on solving this?

Hi Gari M8,

I agree totally with the same number of flyers in both halves!

I have re-read this thread again but fail to see where anybody has disagreed with the same amount of pilots rule for both halves.

maybe I have just mis-read where that discussion was happening.

If one squad starts GE and and flys 8 then loses pilots in second half then maybe there should be a penalty to them like giving up the point if they did indeed win that round. And also let second team fly the 8 they started with against. If a team loses pilots due to connection then so be it! Tough break.

Inferno

I agree also, but Inferno sir, when a team member loses connnection then if a pilot sitting can take that persons place no? yes? mabey? what do you all think? I do and im sure most will agree that if you start with 8 then you end with 8, period. If you lose a pilot due to connection fail and start the second half with only 7 and have only 7 (no sitters) then yes to bad its 8 on 7.

Hi Inf, there are 2 scenarios here.

Sometimes the pilot numbers change through no fault of a squad, and sometimes it may be on purpose.

If the rule becomes 'however many at start is fixed until finish' this is fine to stop the problem of tactical GB/GE changes but would do nothing to discourage squads from dropping their less experienced pilots for the whole match.

Also, what about when team A has 6 (GE) and team B has 8 GB (so has to sit 2) for the first half and then team A gets 2 more latecomers for the second half? They will then have 8 v 8 and be only able to fly 6 v 6 which is a bit daft.

I really think the majority of matches are not subject to the sort of tactical number manipulation we are talking about - squads often get additional pilots turn up (or leave) and all efforts should be made to allow them to fly. Less pilots will turn up when it is less likely they'll get a game.

I reffed 2 matches today and there was no issue with numbers or tags.

In fact, both went very smooth and I say let Temper take Tbar up on his suggestion and give closing remarks.

From what I have gathered, it seems only fair to fly both halves with same number of pilots. This can be amended for next league play and for the rest of this 2 sqd it will be left on the shoulders of the C/O's and X/O's to make sure their sqd has no disadvantage in my opinion.

FD, Evil, Rb and BSS : Kudos to you all for showing great sportsmanship and having no issues in the matches!!

I see the other matches played today were evenly matched pilot wise as well.

Vip out.....

Fury, I agree with you 100 percent on that issue, start 8 vs 8 one pilot loses connection, replacement pilot may start 5 minutes after other loses conn! ( as is in the rules now I believe ),

Gari , I am in almost total agreement with you. I am trying to run all sides of the scenarios as you have well pointed out in your last post. I would like to add that while I do see the frustration part of pilots who are requested to sit, I remember the times I was requested to sit in the beginning of my (career) some six years ago when i first came to game and joined USHA. The first year was particularly frustrating getting killed so much and trying to learn the basics. I held no grudges for being made to sit when I was asked.

Likewise it would be unfair for pilots like myself who have struggled to learn, have taken tips here and there from better pilots to be forced to fly with pilots who aren't ready for match play yet. So unfair to both in different scenarios!

So what would be a good compromise? I dont know really. I have no hard nose opinion either way although I currently feel it is within the rights of the CO to sit anyone they think is not up to match play. Being accepted into a squad is no guarantee of immediate or mandatory match play imo. Perhaps if the situation comes up like ours with WS where we sat a few pilots for minimum required of 6 ( for both halves ) and we rotated one pilot or 2 into second match, the other team may have 3 new guys too. COs should say "hey we have 3 new guys here too want to fly that have not flown squad play before so we feel teams would be even", even that no guarentee of honesty.

maybe squad play should be limited to 6 set players before league starts. USHA 1,2,3,4,5,6 is the USHA team representing this match, USHA 7,8,9,10,11,12 are second USHA team to be in league as seperate team. But always other teams know that USHA 1-6 will be fighting this match etc etc. Maybe a certain amount of substitutions like say 6 for the league duration in case pilots cant make it? Also no mandatory disqualifications if 6 dont show,, team must fly with preset team ( with substitution rules) or the forfeit match and lose more than 3 match points.

And Noodles ideas of penalties for aa kills i like. I say any aa kill even in opposing teams aa should count as 2 deaths. crashes should count as 2 deaths.

We could call it Inferno's league!!!! lol

??

Minor point to consider that's just occured to me...

Without the ability to use "tags" within matches 616 Squadron would never have existed, same can be said of the 336th I think.

Also, I can remember when in a 2 squad the teams were so uneven that "gentlemenly conduct" and a sense of "fairplay" came into play, with the stronger squad loaning players to the undermanned squad, just so a match could take place and everyone could enjoy the game !

Even "Wildcards" could play in the event of a shortage ! Heaven forbid now !

Common sense is a wonderful thing.

WTF names on American Footballers Tops has to do with AA is beyond me, even I (a mere Pom) know which one the quarterback is, without knowing names or numbers.

Nip

And Noodles ideas of penalties for aa kills i like. I say any aa kill even in opposing teams aa should count as 2 deaths. crashes should count as 2 deaths.

I think Noodles has a great point but then that means the poor ref has to watch the match again from a recording just to make sure he/she got all the aa kills.....just pointing that out is all mabey it wouldn't be that hard to do during a match? not sure...ive never been a ref.

I found another thing I don't like about hidden tags....

Anyone read the match reports today? Who got 1st kill? Who was the MoH?

Yeah yeah I know, I can go look 'em up.

1st time I've read those reports in years and I aint got a clue Temper.

Just remember, "Where would we be without rules? That's right: France! and where would we be with too many rules? That's right: Germany! and where would we be where the rule said we had to have a sleep in the afternoon? That's right: Spain !" :lol::lol:

Nip