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What Grinds My Gears

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What Grinds My Gears

#11
And it is already a law of flags and how they should be displayed everything I have just said.
http://senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
You are correct! I didn't have a pole so I looked up the correct way to display my flag on my front door.

What we don't have (and used to have) was a federal law against desecration of the US flag.

RB-- sorry, but in my opinion you missed the "spirit" of the post. It was not about whether America is better than

another country, it was about respecting the land you chose to live in by flying that flag in a position of honor.

Children don't usually have a choice, but adults do, and if you chose to live in the US, whether you were born here or not,

it is only proper to honor our flag. I would feel the same way if I lived in another country.

I happen to have flags for the 3 major university's in our state.. IU, ND, Purdue...because members of my family

all attended/ graduated from them. They do not compete with the US flag... They are displayed lower, and at a

distance from the US flag (when I have all of it set-up).(if I put up flags for each of my heritages, you couldn't see my house LOL)

American's are fighting and dying right now (we had two funerals for service men in our little 100 mile area in the last month)

It is very important to remember what is happening, and show our love and respect for all our military and their families. The

sacrifice is just too monumental to ignore or trivialize with politics or anything else.

What Grinds My Gears

#13
Inferno began this post with:
I believe that a law should be passed thats states NO other flag other than the flag of the United States Of America ( good Old Glory) should be displayed in a public display of "patriotism" or "pride" by anyone on American soil.
Think about that Fern. Going a little too far maybe? Our flag is flown in many countries by our government institutions, US organizations and companies. US citizens abroad also frequently display the flag in various ways to announce their nationality. US flags along with other nations' flags are flown, for example, on the Normandy beaches and other war sites. Perhaps Tulla should sneak on to the Remagen bridge one of these nights and lower the US flag. He will know what I mean if no one else does. Those of you, who do know, may be tempted to tell me about how grateful or ashamed various nations should be over US participation in their victories or defeats. I think, however, that it is time to stop expecting present generations to hold themselves responsible for the actions or misdeeds of their fore-fathers.

I hesitated over getting into this debate because I understand the feelings that are generated by topics like illegal immigration etc but let us not expand those feelings into xenophobia (for those of you who criticize me for using big words...xenophobia = irrational fear or dislike of foreigners). There is much to be said about the need for immigration reform etc but that should not influence our relations with visitors who are here legally and those who are awaiting legal naturalization. Neither should we antagonize our international friends and allies by expressing our patriotism and national pride in arrogant terms.

Inferno is correct in saying there are protocols in place for the flying of flags and, even if it is only a protocol not enforcable by law, it should be incumbent on all, especially non citizens, to abide by these protocols. Similarly our flag should always be flown in other countries with equal observance of their protocols. Provided these protocols are followed we should have no issue with those who wish to show a little pride in their heritage. This is especially true of the United States where there is a mixture of every nationality under the sun.

I got into this because I became uncomfortable with the way it was developing into an "international incident" I'm sure Tulla doesn't want to fly the German flag in the USA and none of you are probably interested in flying a US flag in Germany. The point is that we can portray our love of country and whatever principles it stands for without exhibiting an unnecessary arrogance that appears to belittle other nations or peoples.

Loving one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?

What Grinds My Gears

#14
Inferno began this post with:
I believe that a law should be passed thats states NO other flag other than the flag of the United States Of America ( good Old Glory) should be displayed in a public display of "patriotism" or "pride" by anyone on American soil.
Think about that Fern. Going a little too far maybe? Our flag is flown in many countries by our government institutions, US organizations and companies. US citizens abroad also frequently display the flag in various ways to announce their nationality. US flags along with other nations' flags are flown, for example, on the Normandy beaches and other war sites. Perhaps Tulla should sneak on to the Remagen bridge one of these nights and lower the US flag. He will know what I mean if no one else does. Those of you, who do know, may be tempted to tell me about how grateful or ashamed various nations should be over US participation in their victories or defeats. I think, however, that it is time to stop expecting present generations to hold themselves responsible for the actions or misdeeds of their fore-fathers.

I hesitated over getting into this debate because I understand the feelings that are generated by topics like illegal immigration etc but let us not expand those feelings into xenophobia (for those of you who criticize me for using big words...xenophobia = irrational fear or dislike of foreigners). There is much to be said about the need for immigration reform etc but that should not influence our relations with visitors who are here legally and those who are awaiting legal naturalization. Neither should we antagonize our international friends and allies by expressing our patriotism and national pride in arrogant terms.

Inferno is correct in saying there are protocols in place for the flying of flags and, even if it is only a protocol not enforcable by law, it should be incumbent on all, especially non citizens, to abide by these protocols. Similarly our flag should always be flown in other countries with equal observance of their protocols. Provided these protocols are followed we should have no issue with those who wish to show a little pride in their heritage. This is especially true of the United States where there is a mixture of every nationality under the sun.

I got into this because I became uncomfortable with the way it was developing into an "international incident" I'm sure Tulla doesn't want to fly the German flag in the USA and none of you are probably interested in flying a US flag in Germany. The point is that we can portray our love of country and whatever principles it stands for without exhibiting an unnecessary arrogance that appears to belittle other nations or peoples.

Loving one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?
Ahh Yes Xena,

If you read only that statement in my post it does seem a bit over the top. Based on that statement alone you can assume a different

I think that hunterdog summed it up best what I wanted to say is:

The American flag should be flown with a certain protocol including other nations flags in concert with the American Flag. For instance The American flag inside the States is flown ABOVE the other flags.

Also what this post was meant to say is that the "people" who I am talking about in particular fly grandous displays of love for their home country but not even ONCE fly a flag of the country which has afforded them a better life. This is what grinds my gears.

What Grinds My Gears

#15
Ah, I got an Organ Grinder on this one,

Let me take you back in time to a place where people came to the US to get away from the misery and economic disaster that there own country bestowed upon them.

Even tho there were no electrified fences or the Great China wall they came by the millions, make a good living, send the money to there families they left behind to survive, do not pay taxes and lowered the standard of living in the US with cheap wages.

Watch the can of worms on this one:)

I turned my tv on one day and watched massive groups, 10 million or more, of illegal imigrants marching in protest on the deportation issue that surfaced, always too late, and was appalled that instead of holding Old Glory they were holding the flag of the country they fled. If that wasn't the chit's i don't know what is.

I got to go defrost the fridge,

Salute

What Grinds My Gears

#16
I received a very nice pm on the central launch-page, of a fellow american-aa?er and want to share my reply with you: (sorry for a long read in advance)

I?m sorry, if my reply caused anyone to think, that I?d be anti-american in any way. I am not, though I naturally don?t agree with many things from the US- american policies, especially foreign policies. I am just anti-ignorance, anti-arrogance and anti-racism. Therefore, I?m also somewhat frightened about the views some of your fellow U.S. aa?ers expressing on the forums.

It is way too easy, to point at my person as a german, whoms father was a child during the 2nd world war and whoms grandfather was a mounted police-man in the german ?alps? and surely had as much to do with war-crimes as I am ------>nothing. At least this is what I got told and tend to belive, since I never met any of my grand-dads. The other one was an ordinary soldier (G.I.) in the german Wehrmacht and died during the cold winter in Russia 1942, suffering hunger and without warm clothes, due to the cutted supply. Of course, it is always an argument, when discussing or quarreling with a german about racism, war-crimes and policies. If my fore-fathers were involved in wars, they surely were there to serve their country, without a clue about the wheres and why?s and in their best sense. Just in the same way, like your sons and fathers fighting and dying in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. The awakening of these fellow soldiers came much too late. They died and got hurt and crippled for their believes to do good for their country. They got lied to by their governments false propaganda and it was a time- quality, in which ?believing?was oh so easy, since Hitler not only brang war to Germany. At the beginning of his political career he brang work for the workless and pushed Germanys economy. He brang bread on the table of the germans. It is easy to believe in the words of such ?heroes? and they happily gone to war for their believes without any doubt. Additionally I think the humanity of 60 years ago was somewhat more naive and not so enlightened. I see similar dangerous tendencies in the unites states of the 21st century and am so frightened, I can?t tell.

I got used to the argument of being a german and have to look at the history of my own country, especially at those of over 60 years ago. We as well as all others will never forget and are not allowed to forget because it is our responsibility to remember the horrible things happened back in that time, so that they never can happen again.

It is tiresome at times to discuss with some US-americans about such important topics. I am a pacifist, am highly tolerant and a supporter of globality (though not in regard to economy because I fear China. Their cheap products lowering our wages).

Actually I see myself as a world-citizen, rather than a german citizen. Though my appearance is as german as it only could be.

This was off-topic but I felt the need to explain it anyway because of Hawks post.

We are not talking about the 2nd world-war, not about Germany of 60 years ago. We are talking about the united states of today.

It?s not easy. Germany is multi-cultural as well and there are shades of racism and hate against foreigners and we even have neo- nazis, as you can find them all over in the world, especially in the U.S. allthough they?re forbidden by law in Germany. We aren?t even allowed to show Nazi-signs and emblems such as the swastika in games like ?Call of duty?or ?Medal of honour?. We can play these games but we always getting the ?censored?edition only because they fear the gamers could glamorize them again.

Living in a country, which suffers very similar problems with foreigners as the U.S. (they steal our work ? :0 They?re living from our welfare ? :0 They don?t pay taxes ?:0 etc. pp.) makes it hard for me to discuss the ?opposite point of view? with some of your fellow countrymen.

At least I can say, that the majority of german citizens are in the same way tolerant and anti-racism as I am. We have learned from our bad history and don?t want it to repeat. Not in Germany, not in Europe and not elsewhere. Especially not in the country of our friends, who brang democracy to our country and teached us to respect and protect every single life on earth. A country which was (and still is, for many) the leading culture and a precursor of Germanys life today. We?re appaled to see, hear and read what the no.1 fighter for freedom and democracy is doing to its own democracy and freedom.

In Germany at the year of 1933 it started all with exorbitant patriotism, racism, burning and banning of foreign flags, books, music, culture at all..........it ended in war, with mass-murdering jews in the very first place, other foreigners, homo-sexuals, members of other parties than the national-socialistc party and many other minorities.

To read a post like the one of Inferno, who I think is fair- and large- minded otherwise, scares the crap out of me because I?ve read such ?narrow-minded? posts for years on forums, almost always from US - citizens only.

No, I don?t think all americans are like that and yes, I still like Inferno. I just think, he and many other U.S. americans are on the wrong way and fighting for the wrong believes. I post because I want to change minds and not because I want to attack or to insult you.

Regards

What Grinds My Gears

#17
This last post of yours Tulla is truly a post to be respected! I salute you in this post for your manners and the way you put down in writing a little bit of how and why you feel the way you do!

Let me clarify my position as my first post gave a different "tone" than what I wanted to say. ( Thank You Aegle for pointing it out ! ") )

Than after this clarification maybe you need not be scared..

My thoughts should be refined to say that I believe that if you want to fly the flag of your native country while in America , it should be done with respect given to the country you are now in. That is pretty much it.

This has stemmed particularly from my experience with people flying the Puerto Rican flag here in NY. There are many people who fly this flag draped over there cars daily! many of these people ( which I know first hand ! ) take handouts from the USA in forms of inexpensive public housing,food stamps,medical care etc etc. This is what i find disrespectful. To take care from the US while running around advertising ina flamboyant way for their country of origin. I say be proud of where you came from Yes, but be respectful of the country which is feeding you now also. I would love to see them even once in a while fly an American flag as a way of saying thank You.

So maybe my words didnt convey that and was taken as a blanket statement.

And that being said doesnt give my endorsement to the political stage in America. But I do love the land I call home. And we are all worried about the future of America,our jobs,our economy,our safety etc.

So once again my topic really was about my experience here in NY with 1 group in particular really.

What Grinds My Gears

#18
Inferno, I?ll answer your post tomorrow, since I have to go to bed now. It?s 10:37 pm and I have to get up at 3:30 am.

Could you do me a favour and taking some photos of the cars with puerto rican flags on it and upload them in here, so that I can get an imagination of what exactly does annoy you ?

And: I understood what originally was meant by your post but also saw the other replies. I think this is the seed, such dangerous thoughts and believes can grow from. Probably my reply was too harsh but was never meant in an insulting or attacking way.

What Grinds My Gears

#19
I was going to keep my mouth shut because it is/was already a heated discussion but i do have to say a couple of words. My name is Mike and I migrated to the US in 2000. I am as Tulla from Germany and I am living now in Dallas, TX. My wife is a US Citizen and was born here and I am still a German citizen. My wife is a US Army Veteran and I am a German Army Veteran and I am living in the US on a Green Card. We have both met while being deployed in former Yugoslavia.

When I first read the post and saw what you wrote I was kind of shocked:

"I believe that a law should be passed thats states NO other flag other than the flag of the United States Of America ( good Old Glory) should be displayed in a public display of "patriotism" or "pride" by anyone on American soil."

but I am glad that i didn't reply to it because you have later explained in a post what you really meant.

When I read the next statement made by popgun:

"Here here!!! laugh.gif

Take their country flag and their fricken

bumper sticker that says I love woopinstien.

And ship em back to woopinstien."

I got kind of p----- to be honest with you because the only difference between me and him are that he is a US Citizen and I am not. I am a green card holder and we are both living in the US legally and I am paying the same Taxes as him and I am working just as hard as everybody else. I have the same rights but I am not allowed to vote. I know there are issues in this country with illegal immigrants but with the above statement he puts all of us in one category. Legal or not GET OUT! That in my opinion is racist! Sorry if I misunderstand his post by I don't think I do.

US Flag or not ...... I am proud of my country and I will keep on flying the German Flag as I see pleased. I agree and will always show my respect to the US flag and I hope I will never have to see someone burning any countries flag because that is just utter disrespect.

Thanks,

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